I think if you are confident enough in your script to compare it to the likes of Oliver Stone or Francis Ford Coppola, and the story must be told, then there is no reason to cut a single word out of it. My recommendation would be instead to sit on it until you have five or six shorter, critically-acclaimed, and produced films under your belt, and maybe a couple Academy Awards.

I'm a working script reader in town and completely agree with "The Bitter Script Reader." I understand the argument that you want to put the best piece of work out there, but know that it does not HELP you (even if the project is in fact, better because of the length). It is rare to go against the grain and succeed. Considering that in these times, very few specs sell, that only compounds the first barrier you have to overcome. I don't care if it is GONE WITH THE WIND, if it is that long, no one, and I mean no one with any entry-level pull (I.e. us readers: the first line of offense), will give your script good coverage

Bottom line is this, you are referencing OLIVER STONE and FRANCIS COPPOLA, yes?

Great. We KNOW their names, and as such we also knew their names when they were making those movies you're referencing. Same goes for Sir Richard Attenborough's 3 hour GHANDI. Again, we know their names, i.e. STARS. But until you get your name recognized as a BRAND, no one will give your script a chance.

I made this same mistake once, the producer was even sweet enough to read it. He said, great, awesome story. Now to sell it, cut it down to a manageable length. And I felt like a moron because I didn't do that in the first place. It should also be known that had I not spent 5 years doing favors for the producer -- THERE'S NO WAY IN HELL THIS BUSY HOLLYWOOD PRODUCER WOULD HAVE TAKEN THREE HOURS OR MORE TO READ MY MATERIAL.

And so, do you want your script to sell or merely sit there? Again, no one will cut you an ounce of slack if you turn in a 200 page script. You will come across as pretentious and out of touch, rather than an a solid up-and-coming writer who was slick enough to write a tight knit script bursting with immediacy, to encourage the reader to turn the page.

Seriously, if you think you cannot tell your story in 115 pages (+ or - a page) then you do not yet have a movie, or a firm enough grasp on your craft. But hey, its your movie, your career, your dream. Don't take my word for it.

But I promise you, get it to a manageable length... and you can get someone to read it. If they love it, such as a director, you can say, "I have a 200 page version," and if they REALLY love it, they may read that one...

Without even reading your script I absolutely guarantee it's possible to cut your story to manageable length without losing strength. It may seem daunting, but you are holding onto your story as something too precious. Cut it. Do or do not, but I promise you... as a script reader myself, if ANYONE who is not a name brand or possess solid writing credits (read: star) submits a 140 pages plus script and I have to read it... it will be the very last one I read, meaning it will stay at the BOTTOM OF THE PILE. I will make an excuse to put it off again and again, and I'll find a freaking phonebook to read before I tackle that one. Worse, I will only skim the material... to glean the knowledge of what I have to say to my boss, in which most likely I will say PASS and he/she will never even bat an eyelash to look at your years of work.

At best, and we are talking in a veritable best case scenario, it might go something like this, "SO & SO can write, obviously, but we'll probably need further development, (code for another writer) to get this whittled down to a manageable unit. At which point that writer may be the one to go back in and do the cutting, and if you can't get it cut after the production company and/or studio mandates a reduced page count with great efficiency in the story telling, or if you feel your words or too precious to cut anything... You will not sell/work.

Blunt, Honest, and so true. Please heed these words and teach yourself a new skill. The ability to have a concise screenplay that plays by the rules every one else does. Not in HOW to write, but a freaking length. Dear god, and with production costs being what they are... unless they are a star, no way are we seeing 3 hour movies in the nearby future and when you do, they are from someone with serious freaking clout.

Oliver Stone. James Cameron. Francis Coppola. = BRAND!

That's a lot of words.

Question: how to present a 187-page script.

Answer: Don't.

Follow-up: But wha-

Answer: Nah-ah-ah. Just don't.

Stefano, I know I had promised a response to your response, but as it turns out, everything I would have said has already been expressed by Scott. (Not surprisingly, he did it with more tact and brevity than I probably would have... I really need to work on that.)

Bah Bahrbahrossa and Ryan, always good to see other script readers out here in the blogosphere. And the way Ryan says he'd treat the massive script is pretty much exactly how I would too.

Eyamie, you freaking nailed it! "Nah, just don't."

Also, Bah & Bitter...

Lets put this blog and Scott's community to the task as Scott would like us to by networking. Therefore, I want to meet/discuss/ network with other gatekeepers.

Feel free to write to me at:
iconixfilms@yahoo.com

I'll mail you back, introduce myself, etc. blah blah blah.

Best,
RC

Cut it. Just cut it. Believe me, it's possible.

Don't believe me? I had a 229 page first draft that I cut down to 164. At that point, I thought I couldn't cut any more, so I shelved it. That was about 8 months ago. I bet, given a fresh start, I could pare 30 pages easy off that puppy. And I might one day.

And, well, my script was VERY much like yours. X story dependent on Y story dependent on Z story.

Shelve it for a while. You'll be able to do something one you get back to it, but right now, you're just to close to your work to see that.

If the story is really this long and epic, involving all the stuff you mentioned, couldn't you try cutting it up into some kind of trilogy? Like three parts at about ninety minutes each?

@ Bancroft - I wouldn't recommend that. The only thing that might scream amatuer more than a 180-page script is a spec that ends with "To Be Continued..."

It’s early morning and this may be premature yet but it's ovbious to see the destination of the responses. They are all unique and all appreciated - by me and surely by numerous wordy scribes and subscribers to this wonderful forum. Thank you all. Collectively. And induividually:

@Scott – Priceless response. I also thought that your factoring in the per-screening thing added so much more weight to your argument (which I also thought about right around p.95 and went ‘fuck it’). Anyways since posting the question I have come to terms with reality and decided that a few years’ layer of dust is the one ingredient XYZ truly lacks. Perhaps that, combined with a miraculous (but probable) dose of success, may just be what the script really needs. As for bucking the system - I’ll keep you posted coach! Great pep talk.

@Patrick O’Riley – Thanks. I heard there’s this dude rides around with a truck full of Oscars – he’s bound to come around my way. When he does I’ll grab a couple extra ones for friends and such. That’s O’Riley with an O – right?

@Bah Bahrbahrossa – Gracias. Te siento, amigo.

@Ryan Covert - Everything you said should be inscribed onto a titanium plaque - one that every scriptwriter (save the stars) must glance at every time they press the space bar. And you’re right about the rules and everything, because after all you can’t play football with a soccer ball. No wait – Coach?

@eyamie – Dang!

@The Bitter Script Reader – Brevity - the thorn in my side. You bitter gatekeeper/script reader you! You…!

@Ryan Covert – That was iconixfilms@yahoo.com - right? Clear out your inbox, make room… One 200 page script on the way!

@Nicholas – I have newlyfound wisdom! Amazing how what you/me/anyone thought was a complete work of word art ceases to be so unless it fits into that 8 1/2” X 11” X 3/8” to 5/8”(max) container. Oh, hey don’t forget that it is NOT just about the page count. No. It’s about how much ‘white’ is on the page.

Wanna get it right? Try writing one script for X, one for Y, and one for Z. After that take the damn things and put them on the shelf too, right next to the still hefty 134 page XYZ script you just chopped anorexic. Then? Then decide that maybe you gotta be Nicholas Soandso first - you know, the big shot writer/director guy – before you can get some producer to pay some frustrated screenplay analyst to put away childish things and read your trilogy (@Bancroft) AND your two-plus hour epic all before the end of the week because some other producer is also doing the same and they all gotta make a decision before Friday to keep you from changing your mind and deciding you really just always wanted to make W anyways - due to some inferiority/amateur complex/issues that sabotaged your confidence way back when you were just Nicholas - which would suck for everyone.

Whoa! For a moment there it seems I was being bitter – but I’m not. I'm actually grateful. I had a question and GITS provided some answers. Great!

Now, how about 53 pages? Is that too short a cript? I have this great script...

Dude... Mr Stefano

I have an idea for you.

Why don't you do it the Tarantino Way?

I mean that..

When Tarantino wrote Kill Bill, he knew the big trouble he was in.

He wrote a 4 hours script and he couldn't have the balls to pitch it.

So instead he pitched a two volume film.

Can't you sell your script in two separate parts.

Like in The first part tell story of X with bits of y and z that connect to it

and in the second tell the story of Y with bits of X and Z

etc...

Wouldn't that be easier?

You'll be pitching a script and it's sequel.

Producers like that right? Sequels?

Why not write it as a novel?

I've seen maybe two movies that long that couldn't use cutting. Almost every long ass movie - yes, even the classics - could have benefited from a trim here and there. Make your scenes do double duty and don't think your audience is so stupid we need you to tell us everything.

@stefano - Yeah, O. Just be careful with the apostrophe, it trips people up a lot. But I'm serious about setting it aside and working on some smaller things first. If you are really intent on this thing seeing the light of day "as is" you can always set it on the backburner and push a couple standard length scripts out. I have a story I am absolutely in love with, a true story, a very long story, a period piece, biographical. None of these are exactly selling points. That's why I just work on that one occasionally between powering through 90-pagers, to get representation... and perhaps reputation. A 187 page script isn't impossible to sell, just impossible to sell as your first script.

Stefano, you get that script whittled down to 117 pages (or less) and I will read your script and provide you with a set of basic notes and/or coverage, with the possibility that if it rocks out as much as you think so, I'd be happy to pass it onto those I can who might be of assistance to you. Scott, included.

again, you have my email.

Break a leg and write like the wind!

RC

Another option is to pay a decent script consultant to chop 50 pages out of it. Do they do that?

It sounds fun to me, but I am a former editor, and thus I am merciless when it comes to space.

I totally agree with Emily. I have never seen a three hour movie that could not have been edited into something more manageable. Thumbs up, Emily! :)

my view on film length is, 100 minutes (feature film) or 20 hours (miniseries, TV show, etc), not 3 hours or 2 1/2 hours.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Always have that in the back of your head. Your instinct should be to cut rather than expand when it comes to your final product.

Don't get ahead of yourself in story architecture. Be sure you can pull off an X story by itself before you jump into XYZ.

I am new to this site and have read with interest about the 187 page script. Why, because I myself am staring down that same barrel. So after reading this I am going to go hack at my screenplay. The thing I am curious about is IF the process is so thorough and these people reading scripts are so talented then why is most of the stuff coming out of hollywood complete rubbish? I truly believe that some of these screenplays are chosen solely because they where bound properly and the title was centered while some masterpiece was tossed in the garbage because the paper was the wrong shade of white.

@Everyone - After careful consideration, I decided to keep XYZ intact and to myself.

@Ricky the Rocket - The guidelines and directions and formats of standard are nothing more than a formula of how to. They're a general rule of thumb that anyone could adhere to and take a shot at something seemingly worthwile. It's great to have such a thing because it says 'anyone can do it, here's the way - basically'. There's nothing wrong with that at all. But the individual who propagates it through a general discrimination towards different approaches is a menacing character that both the business and the artform could do better without.

The Earth was once believed to be flat and the Sun was thought to spin around it, and anyone caught stating otherwise was considered a fool. But some foolish men and their foolish practices have been redefined as visionary by history's course. As for Copernicus and Galilei and Vespucci and Columbus that was the case, for they were correct.

So we better be right when defying the rules lest we risk to go down as foolish fools.