TheQuietAct at 2013-07-12 18:20:03:
I know what you mean about seeing the hand of the puppeteer Scott. The magic fades, working out the trick is a distraction. I had the same reaction to film after first editing. And edits can still jar me. As do the end of sequences. But if a film is engaging, well written and with great performances I forget about it, even if I've pen out analysing the writing. And just enjoy. Likewise with great T.V. writing. As audiences we're heavily exposed to structure and expect certain patterns whether we're conscious of them or not but we all all love it when we're surprised, when the structure is used in an interesting, entertaining way.
TheQuietAct at 2013-07-12 18:23:26:
By the way GREAT lil cartoon. How many writing competitions out there inspire songs written in their honour, encourage writers to recraft poetry and animators to paint cartoons?
Alejandro Gutierrez Sanchez at 2013-07-12 18:39:40:
Learning structure did hurt my viewing habits for a while. I started checking my watch trying to identify plot points, I was too aware of the story story structure for certain movies. But as you mention, others grabbed my attention in a way that I completely forgot about tracking the structure. And there were a couple of movies (Mulholland Drive, Memento, 8 1/2, NIght and Fog) where the structure is so different and I liked them so much, that it made me question how much I should stick to a standard and predictable structure. But the "big break" was receiving feedback for my first screenplay on a workshop. They were... structurally bad. That made me appreciate a lot how a film or a screenplay should be properly structured yet somehow that structure must be hidden from the audience and how hard it is. It was a humbling experience. Now I try to forget about deciphering the structure while I'm watching a movie, enjoy it the first time and start the analysis until the credits start to roll. And I don't want my blissful ignorance back.
CydM at 2013-07-12 19:27:20:
Ha! I used to sit there with a watch and check plot point timing, too. Great way to annoy friends and family. Lots of people write with music playing, but I can't do that. I turn on the TV, find an insipid channel, and let it drone on. Sometimes I'll yell out, "Plot point!" then go on a rant at the movie about how they should get a sign like the old days of vaudeville to march across the screen announcing the plot point. Sometimes it's that formalistic and that annoying. To answer your question, yes, knowing what I know now, I have much more enjoyment of movies. I know when to walk out and ask for a refund, and there's always the enchantment of a really good one that leaves me feeling the warm fuzzies because I couldn't catch a single PP or a beat. It's magic I never knew existed, and it's priceless.
Laura Deerfield at 2013-07-12 19:36:59:
It's like Penn and Teller. They explain the tricks, and yet, somehow, remain immensely popular. Why? Because they still pull them off with such amazing creativity and skill. Yes, I've had moments where knowing too much about a movie made it dull - but I don't know that I would have enjoyed those films much anyway. Even when something is shallow and formulaic, and yet, somehow, rises above that to become exciting and engaging...that in itself is interesting. I love watching procedural TV shows, even though I can pretty consistently predict what's going to happen, and sometimes even the exact line a character will say. There's a reason they're popular. They're like sudoku: a puzzle that's got a real and definite solution. I like puzzles, but I'm usually a little lazy... Of course, I like something that manages to challenge me even more, as long as it's still something I can figure out...I really hate it when I can't figure it out, and feel like I've been cheated because I wasn't given the right tools. Sometimes that's in relation to the plot, and sometimes it's figuring out the structure and themes. But then, I got into close literary analysis when I was a teenager, so applying that kind of thinking to film is fun.
Mark Walker at 2013-07-12 19:51:39:
Like others above, after starting on my personal Quest, and having read Snyder, McKee and Field, I did find myself look too closely at structure when watching films....to the point I would shout something like "midpoint" and pause the film to show my (very tolerant) wife that the movie was at the 55 minute make (give or take a few)....and, despite the odd exception to the rule, 9 times out of 10 I seemed to be right. Then she threatened to kill me....so I quickly realised that the fascination I had developed was something I should be enthusing about on my own. So yes, I have learned to lose myself in the film again and think about structure afterwards, perhaps in the Blu Ray Extras, or reading the screenplay....and, at the same time, saved my marriage! ;-)
Matt Graham at 2013-07-13 04:43:02:
Reading Save the Cat! made me see the code the movie Matrix, and I haven't been able to unsee it when I watch most Hollywood films. The formula presented in the book is so flexible, it adapts to anything after a few moments' thought. It doesn't affect my actual writing, though, just my watching.
Matt Graham at 2013-07-13 04:46:46:
After I read Snyder, I spent about a month documenting my nightly movie beat for beat with my notepad. I showed my wife, I showed my friends, and when I wrote a crib sheet for a friend, they too started texting with me "Decision!" "Midpoint!" "Whiff of Death!". As you say, nine times out of ten, it hits. I still feel that's because the beats are so adaptable. I first heard of it when I saw a discussion on Breaking Bad's pilot script, with a STC template slotted right over it, and yep, it fit for time.
Matt Graham at 2013-07-13 04:48:26:
Your comment on tricks and execution is right on. Tropes and tricks are established for a reason, and just because a story has them doesn't mean it's a success. It really is about how the story is executed, and then every other factor outside of the script on top of that.
Tony_McFadden at 2013-07-13 05:06:16:
I've even found the structure played out perfectly in a 60 second Jeep commercial (I break it down on my blog, if anyone's interested). At first it "ruined" movies (and well written TV shows), although more for those watching with me. Now I watch with some anticipation to see how the writers "do it", and compare, at least mentally, how I would...
Despina at 2013-07-13 16:39:58:
I'm completely oblivious unless it's completely horrible and then I can't help but tick off the boxes as they happen in order to amuse myself. One thing I ALWAYS pay attention to, however, are set-ups and pay-offs. And bad editing. And bad acting. And bad dialogue... I guess the I only time I pay attention to structure, or lack thereof, is when it's bad or horribly obvious.