Traci Nell Peterson at 2013-05-05 14:27:58:
I'm in. Team Aristotle, all the way. I was immediately won over by his definition of story: Beginning. Middle. End. Duh? Right? Ah, the genius of simplicity... I can't wait to experience Poetics via Scott's screenwriting community.
Jacoblog at 2013-05-05 16:13:28:
Yes - have read Poetics. Agree with Aristotle's way of looking at things. I don't want to be closer to any truth that requires me to distance myself from the emotion that can be afforded by immersing oneself in the "arts". Also agree that if writers better able to channel the power of "story", as past masters seemed to be able to do, that the final product offered to the masses would be that much better. Sometimes I wonder if, in the film industry, technology is progressing way too fast. No doubt there're absolutely amazing things that can be done with film that the greats of the past would undoubtedly envy - however, is anyone taking the time to actually think how the latest advances in film production can work to a story's advantage? Cheers, Rob
agamemnon at 2013-05-05 16:36:06:
Not only have I read Poetics, I've read it in ancient Greek. Can't wait to look at it again through a screenwriter's lens.
John Arends at 2013-05-05 16:46:37:
What an astonishing treat this is going to be! Yes, I've read most of Poetics, especially after reading interviews with David Mamet and others, some who say they read it every year, as a refresher. Thank you, Scott!
Despina at 2013-05-05 16:51:19:
How fitting you bring this up today as it's Greek Easter (not that Aristotle would've cared much). And I just got off the phone with my Dad who lives in Thessaloniki (named after Alexander the Great's sister) and we were just discussing my time spent at Aristotle University there and how I went on some really cool trips... one of which was to Phillipi (where King Phillip's palace was and where AtG was raised). Crazy! I touched on Poetics a bit back in HS and college, but never delved further. Would definitely be interesting to see it with screenwriter eyes. Thanks AGAIN, Scott, for giving us new and wonderful tools and devices :)
Archas Philosophy at 2013-05-05 18:38:29:
I'm looking forward to this series. Have been going through film theory with a group of students this past semester, and something that really stands out to me is the way that, starting in the 1950s or so--but really exemplified in America by the 70s--"modern" film has advanced in large part by specifically rejecting Aristotle. This is not to say that it's been a return to Plato; rather, the idea seems to have been that Aristotle's Poetics gives us a map for theater in the service of the status quo (catharsis as a way of purging negative emotions and reconciling oneself with the world and polis). And so Godard, for example, sets out to create a new cinema by setting up new "virtues" in explicit oppositions to Aristotle's recommendations...I'm looking forward to seeing which bits of the Poetics you feel hold up, and which bits strike you as outdated or (worse yet) pernicious.
lil_d_lish__ at 2013-05-05 20:27:04:
More influenced by the Classics than anything else! Aristotle's "truth" can be understood even more so after reading "Poetics" and Sophocles (my favorite) "Antigone." That moral compass and truth comes down to simple human perception.
Scott at 2013-05-05 21:41:00:
Hey, this is great! Seriously, I thought I'd post this and there would nothing but the echo of thin wind and virtual tumbleweeds. Like who wants to read Aristotle nowadays? What could the dude possibly have to save about Smurfs 2? For those who will follow this series, you will not only learn a lot, you will also obtain some good karma. I know I'm mixing Greek and Indian cultures, but I'm nothing if not multicultural. Next week: More Aristotle!
TeamAristotle at 2013-05-05 23:03:26:
Team A all the way. Aristotle embraced art, gave it meaning, Socrates didn't care for its emotive power, thinking emotions blind us to truth (he has a point, consider confirmation bias, or the spectacle of modern news or reality TV). Beautiful deep thought from Terry Rossio's "Deep Thoughts": "It is nearly a universal quality of human beings to be able to recognize the Truth -- and that's Truth with a capital 'T' -- nearly always when it is presented to them. Yet it is a rare quality to be able to define the Truth, and to make those presentations." http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp29.Deep.Thoughts.html At least Aristotle and Plato both sought to make those presentations. I bet if they were here now they'd find common ground, so much more we know about so many things (the universe, the brain, emotions, storytelling, how we learn, engage, remember, and so on). I think today they'd agree that storytelling is a terrific vehicle for all kinds of truth, and that the scale of truth and audience possible through screenwriting is pretty fun.
brianb18 at 2013-05-06 00:27:39:
The timing of this upcoming series is great. I've read and studied a lot of Stoicism for the past year and half (Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius, and recently Rufus) which, even though has little to do with storytelling and screenwriting (although I'm sure you could extrapolate some), will still be close enough for me. I really dig this shit, so count me in!
Dean Scott at 2013-05-06 06:19:56:
Looking forward to this series! Having read and studied Plato, I've been wanting to go on to Aristotle for some time now. So early awaiting next weeks post.
Roman Sidenko at 2013-05-06 06:26:59:
I tried to read him some time ago. But when you're on your own it's just the hardest thing to do, I guess. I'm glad you choose to study this as a subject. I think it's important, I think he wrote what's in us. And it's really the basics, that should be learned. It's simply ignorant not to study Poetics, and sadly without that knowledge I'm a bit of it too (for one of the million of my unimportant reasons). I mean, sure, I'm with you!
Simo at 2013-05-06 09:42:13:
I'm in! Just found a copy of Poetics on my bookshelves - unread... Looking forward to this. I'm guessing the need for story hasn't changed much since Aristotle's day.
Keith_Moten at 2013-05-06 10:49:39:
Haven't read Poetics. But I'll be hitting my local bookstore this week to find a copy. Very excited by the prospect of this series, especially after reading the comments about spectacle and the parallel with 70s filmmaking.
Gil_S at 2013-05-06 10:54:09:
Count me in. I've dabbled in the Poetics, but never committed to fully analyzing it. Seems like Plato's ideal is definitely off the mark. Art has been informing us since the beginning of time. The power of myth is an innate human characteristic - think of the earliest cave paintings. We use story and metaphor to help us rationalize our complicated existence and our relationship to the natural world and to each other. So far film is the most appropriate art form we have to accomplish that. One could argue that video games, for better or worse, will emerge as the new way we get our Aristotelian "fix" in the coming years. But either way, we need art to survive. A world without art is not somewhere I'd want to live for very long.
Brandi nighteyes18jp@yahoo.com at 2013-05-06 16:06:34:
Love this! I read Aristotle's and "Poetics" in a Theatre class a couple of years ago as well as parts of Plato's "Republic" and Sophocles "Antigone." I remember thinking the entire class that it still rings true today in our writings. So I can't wait for this take on it. Thanks Scott!
tjbeale at 2013-05-06 21:12:57:
I'm in. I haven't read it. Looking forward to it.
Erica R Maier at 2013-05-07 12:27:31:
Never read it, but look forward to diving in ...
pgronk at 2013-05-07 13:42:42:
Looking forward to discussing "The Poetics". The more I read about screenwriting, the more I esteem "The Poetics" as one of the best. It's a book about universal principles of drama relating to common denominators in human nature that transcend culture and time.
JewelDole at 2013-05-08 19:58:06:
I mentioned this stuff a couple of times these past few weeks over on the Blackboard. I'm actually a newcomer to Aristotle's Poetics, but he just makes the most sense. I suggest Michael Tierno's "Aristotle's Poetics for Screenwriters" (paperback.) It's on Disney's reading list for its writers program. It's a great read - Tierno uses lots of film references to illustrate Ari's points, making the whole enterprise much easier to grasp and apply.
JewelDole at 2013-05-08 22:35:33:
Here's an example: "Episodic [pIots] are the worst. I caIl a plot episodic when there is neither probability nor necessity [causality] in the sequence of its episodes." - Aristotle The "single issue" action that ties "American Beauty" together is simply this: The perception of beauty and the effect it has on people's lives is an action which all the characters, in their own way, participate: Ricky Fitz comments on this "single issue" when he shows Janey a fIoating bag, and recounts how this image prompted him to realize that there is so much beauty in the worId, he feels as though his heart may burst. This single issue, the perception of beauty, with the longing and anguish it entails, becomes the story's "one-track mind." The characters are driven by this mindset. Lester chases Angela, Janey goes for Ricky, Angela wants Lester, Lester's wife Carol hooks up with Buddy, and Colonel Fitz kisses Lester. Obviously, a unified chain of events. For the record, there is sorne separate cause and effect in the sub-actions of the secondary characters going on, but these sub-actions converge lo make the story ONE COMPLETE ACTION. All the action connects lo Lester, the hero who takes the lead. From: Michael Tierno’s “Aristotle’s Poetics for Screenwriters”, p. 26.
JewelDole at 2013-05-08 22:46:38:
Tierno's description of how all the characters in a well-unified story participate in the story's single complete action - while the hero "takes the lead" - reminds me of a pack of huskies pulling a sled over the snow. They all participate, running fast to pull the single sled along, but the alpha dog takes the lead.
C R at 2013-05-09 18:48:56:
I have read Aristotle's Poetics and I have never been to fond of Plato. I don't think Socrates would have liked most of what Plato wrote. The Poetics, I always keep nearby, next to The Illiad, The Oydessey, Thucydides, Virgil, Ovid and Dante, etc. Frankly, I think most screenwriters would be better served by getting a degree in the Classics instead of getting an MFA in Screenwriting. There are many films from the 1970s that are my favorite, but there are also many films from the 1970s that are dreadful. I think the 70s film market looks better than it was, because most films from the 60s were worst. I don't know if there is one decade that could be considered the best decade of American film, if I had to pick one, I would say the 1940s, and if our current decade keeps moving along the way it is, maybe in 2020, I can say that the 2010s was one of the best decades in American film. -- CC Rubi