larry_barker@btinternet.com at 2013-02-21 12:22:19:
"The English Patient" - a really complicated time-line that, IMHO, it managed very well.
Mark Walker at 2013-02-21 12:34:13:
Just to repeat what I suggested two days ago when Scott first mentioned this topic.....Ratatouille....it only uses that one flashback when Ego eats his meal at the end, but as an example of a flashback I think it is perfect and conveys so much about the character, that any other way of trying to get the same info across would have been heavy handed and clunky. Just a few seconds long, but it still brings a lump to the throat too. And one I watched recently, Blue Valentine, uses much a larger number of flashbacks to show the first blush of romance contrasted to the later disintegration of the relationship.
larry_barker@btinternet.com at 2013-02-21 13:02:16:
Whoops. Just realised 'The English Patient" isn't in the IMDB Top 250. Though I can't imagine why. How many Oscars do you have to win??
The Bark Bites Back at 2013-02-21 13:21:28:
Once Upon a Time in the West used it effectively here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kD54-q1uFM You've got your great dialogue, talisman, motivation revelation, etc.
The Bark Bites Back at 2013-02-21 13:23:46:
Also, "The Kiss" in Vertigo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q8VhPT-VcM, is one of the more memorable and creative uses.
Alan D. at 2013-02-21 13:28:39:
I mentioned this the other day and still feel like it needs inclusion. Even though the sequels have muddled its reputation, the original "Saw" used flashbacks well. It showcased the victim's connection to Jigsaw, provided even more scares and helped build up the character's back story so we actually cared about them. The pacing between the room trap and the flashbacks is well done and keeps the mystery flowing.
James McCormick at 2013-02-21 16:03:44:
FIGHT CLUB has some interesting use of flashback. They're in small snipp-its. It also breaks the 4th wall with its use of flashback, "Flashback humor." It actually uses Flashback in a variety of different ways. To tell a story, to fill in backstory, to give us a different perspective on a scene we've already seen. What's interesting is that we're always placed in the scene, regardless of its function. 21 GRAMS has some interesting use of flashback and non-linear storytelling. Instead of following a chronological flow, it seems to follow a more "cliffhangery" method of cutting through time--Building intrique and going from one question to another instead of on chronological event to another.
anhirsch at 2013-02-21 18:20:09:
Ratatouille is a great call. It's just the one moment, but it's a gut punch that encapsulates the theme of the movie. However, I think Pixar produced an even better flashback in "Up." A whole life in about 4 minutes. Does "Godfather II" count?
churnage at 2013-02-21 21:50:06:
The Fugitive & The Bourne movies, especially the first two.
jwindh at 2013-02-21 21:55:16:
Oh, definitely... Lone Star (John Sayles). The transitions to the flashbacks are exquisite! I agree with James McCormick, too, about 21 Grams. I think it would count more as non-linear story-telling than really as flashback (because I don't know when is the "now" of the film, it flashes forward every bit as much as it flashes back.. the opening scene is nearly the end of the film). But I love that film. Nearly over-the-top with the jumping around in time (my hubby didn't like it for that reason, but he is pretty much just into linear car chases with an explosion to mark the end...) but I think it's brilliant.
Mark Walker at 2013-02-22 01:36:57:
The start to UP is truly magnificent story telling but, and I asked myself this question as I thought about posting for UP as well, is it truly a flashback? The story starts early in Carl and Ellie's life and tells us about a series of events spanning years that shape Carl's outlook....it's a montage that leads up to the present day, setting the seen and providing exposition like a flashback, but is it a flashback if we start in that period? Not trying to be clever, this is a genuine question as I am not sure whether it would be classed as a flashback? Would be really interested to hear what you, and anyone else thinks?
Scott at 2013-02-22 01:45:09:
Mark, here is the definition of flashback I posted a few days ago: "A device in the narrative of a motion picture, novel, etc., by which an event or scene taking place before the present time in the narrative is inserted into the chronological structure of the work." Re "Up": The salient point is this: "taking place before the present time." In that sense, the montage -- which is spectacular storytelling by the way -- moves from the past, through the past, and into the present. So in my view, not a flashback.
anhirsch at 2013-02-22 07:03:43:
I see the point. Taking Scott's definition, does the scene have to be "inserted" between two present-time scenes? The majority of "Up" occurs with Carl as an old man. If there had been a 30 sec. opening//establishing scene of Carl as an old man, does the analysis change? Unless it's a script that truly plays with time (say, "12 Monkeys"), I'd say a short scene that takes place before the bulk of the story, the purpose of which is to provide backstory or context, qualifies as a " flashback."
Mark Walker at 2013-02-22 09:17:27:
But, thinking about something I read elsewhere, is it technically a flashback, if we have not yet met the person from whom the flashback originates? We have met young Carl, but not old Carl. My last project starts with what is essentially a flashback - but in the same way as UP, whereby it is the very first scene in the film (not as long)... and I am not sure I feel it works properly in the context of the film now, so may move it on a few pages...that is why I asked the question really as it is directly relevant to something I am working on.
Will King at 2013-02-22 09:26:50:
I'd like to point to another animation and another type of flashback: Kung Fu Panda 2. There are three flashbacks in the story, and the first two are true flashbacks. They don't provide an opportunity to expound on backstory, but rather act as "a sudden and disturbing vivid memory of an event in the past, typically as the result of psychological trauma." These serve two purposes: to hint at some event in Po's past, which drives a sub-plot to learn what that event was; and to weaken Po at moments of triumph to allow almost-vanquished villains to escape, generating conflict with those on his side.
anhirsch at 2013-02-22 09:59:31:
It's a good question, and I think reasonable people can disagree. It depends on how you think the audience is going to approach the film. For "Up," it was marketed as a buddy movie with a relationship between an elderly man and a boy. If the audience expectation is that the lead character is going to be Ed Asner, then I think the opening scene plays as a flashback. Same deal with "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade." The (fantastic) River Phoenix chase sequence is the opening scene of the movie just like "Up," but I think it's a flashback because its a sequel and we're expecting the movie to be about the already-established adult Indiana Jones.
Mark Walker at 2013-02-22 18:55:55:
@Anhirsch (sorry couldn't reply directly to your comment) - firstly, I agree with you completely about disagreeing! ;-) It is what is useful to novice writers like me to understand other peoples opinions. I do agree with the Indiana Jones example, but I think it probably works as it comes in the middle of a greater body of work. Although it opens the film (as with the opening scene of UP) is is also framed by the films before it and the rest of the film after...we have already met Indy and know a lot about him. With UP, Carl is an unknown quantity and, although I did go in with the expectation of seeing a film mostly about an old man, I didn't have the same knowledge of the character as I did with Indy... Of course, how this works if Last Crusade is the first Indy film you watch, I am not sure! :-) Either way, it is great discussing it with you!
skyhighsmile at 2013-02-22 18:59:23:
I'd be really interested to look at not just the "best" movies in terms of quality, but also the highest grossing movies. In other words, cinephiles and screenwriters may not like the devices, but do audiences really care? (Or do audiences actually like them because they help understand the story?) Let's see, the top 20 are: Domestic: 1 Avatar (2009) 2 Titanic (1997) 3 The Avengers (2012) 4 The Dark Knight (2008) 5 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) 6 Star Wars (1977) 7 The Dark Knight Rises (2012) 8 Shrek 2 (2004) 9 E.T. (1982) 10 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006) 11 The Lion King (1994) 12 Toy Story 3 (2010) 13 The Hunger Games (2012) 14 Spider-Man (2002) 15 Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (2009) 16 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 (2011) 17 Finding Nemo (2003) 18 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) 19 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) 20 Spider-Man 2 (2004) International (Not in Domestic Top 20): 5 Transformers: Dark of the Moon (2011) 7 Skyfall (2012) 11 Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (2011) 13 Alice in Wonderland (2010) 15 Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001) 16 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (2007) 17 The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012) 18 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1 (2010) 20 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (2007) The top 2 use both V.O. and F.B. (though in Titanic the whole main story is a F.B., so doesn't really count). I don't remember the others off the top of my head. Final note: I expect that if we exclude sequels and adaptations of popular works from the list, the frequency of F.B. will go up, since original stories probably need to rely on it more to set up the story. The ultimate goal of all of this, as Scott said, is not to say should we or shouldn't we, but how do you make it work? And I think that probably audiences have less aversion to both VO and FB than we do, and that audiences might actually like FB more in original stories.