Brad Johnson at 2012-06-19 12:38:29:
I would think that the easiest way would be a log-in screen for the forums where, as part of the login process, you have to check a box stating that you agree to the terms and conditions of the GITS forums. These T&C would simply state that all users of the forum agree that you Scott, GITS, other users of the forum, etc. will not be held liable for any reason, now or in the future. This allows someone who is not comfortable agreeing to the terms to opt-out of the process up front.
BFletcher_R at 2012-06-19 14:00:37:
The choice of moderators, and I must emphasize multiple moderators, should really be who you feel the most comfortable with, Scott. The moderators must be willing to maintain an active role in the forum, and must be willing to police the forum for any inflammatory remarks, or threats. Perhaps a brief questionnaire for all of those who desire to become moderators to fill out that basically states why they want to become a moderator, that they understand the time requirement, etc. I know for one I would definitely be interested in doing this, simply because of all the value that I have received from this blog and those who frequent it. It would be my way of giving back to this wonderful screenwriting community. Additionally, on the legal aspect side of things, I think a private pages section on the message board would be the best way to prevent any sort of litigation from arising. You might even go as far as only allowing pages to be posted within groups, and the groups are formed only by people who have put in enough information to verify their identity. So that way there would not be any sort of questionable actions conducted. While it is disheartening to have to approach such a wonderful endeavor with the thought of "how do we go about protecting ourselves from legal issues," perhaps that is simply the day and age that we currently find ourselves in. But, for those that may think about taking someone else's idea after you have read their work, the person you are "stealing" from has been actively working on this idea, and now that you have found it on a web message board, there is a "paper trail" that will support the original author's claim to the work. While I am not an attorney, I am pretty sure the Copyright Law is pretty clear cut on this issue. I do not think that the message boards/forum would end up being a mediocre method of trying to obtain answers from you Scott; I truly believe that many of the followers of this blog are seriously inspired and motivated to engage in their own Quest and will take this message board as the tool to complete their screenplay.
Trudy Handel at 2012-06-19 14:04:35:
Thank you so much for spending the time and effort to do all this - really looking forward to following along with the process.
No, Other Ira at 2012-06-19 15:06:56:
Scott, what about "cutting a deal" with an existing forum? Let's say you did a deal with Done Deal Pro such that they would set up a new Quest section and their moderators would do what they do rather well for the rest of the forum - moderate when things get our of line. Upsides: They have the infrastructure in place. Plus - The fact that it's hosted at a different site would reinforce the notion that this is not an "Ask Scott" forum. Downside: Anyone who signs up for an account at DDP would be able to post - but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Why would DDP say yes? Well, you'd have to work that out. (BTW - The way DDP is set up, I think they could add you as one of the moderators of the Quest section.) If not them, maybe some other forum. Indeed, if there's an existing, well-run forum that you like and they carry ads (i.e., they want more traffic for the $$), they should be more than happy to work something out with you. (And if have Max Millimeter negotiate the deal, he might get them to pay you for the privilege.)
No, Other Ira at 2012-06-19 15:07:35:
Scott, what about "cutting a deal" with an existing forum? Let's say you did a deal with Done Deal Pro such that they would set up a new Quest section and their moderators would do what they do rather well for the rest of the forum - moderate when things get our of line. Upsides: They have the infrastructure in place. Plus - The fact that it's hosted at a different site would reinforce the notion that this is not an "Ask Scott" forum. Downside: Anyone who signs up for an account at DDP would be able to post - but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Why would DDP say yes? Well, you'd have to work that out. (BTW - The way DDP is set up, I think they could add you as one of the moderators of the Quest section.) If not them, maybe some other forum. Indeed, if there's an existing, well-run forum that you like and they carry ads (i.e., they want more traffic for the $$), they should be more than happy to work something out with you. (And if you have Max Millimeter negotiate the deal, he might get them to pay you for the privilege.)
No, Other Ira at 2012-06-19 15:18:08:
Addendum - As for desire to enable "private sharing" of scripts within small groups, people could solicit others to do that via your partner-forum's PM/private-message function and then set up a limited-access account at Mediafire or DropBox, etc. Yes, this would entail some DIY by the participants, but... such is life. (PS: Sorry for the double-posting of the above. I though my browser/your server had hung.)
sabrescribe at 2012-06-19 16:43:07:
IMHO: Try bbPress with Facebook Connect. It's not going to win any Webby awards, but it's free, relatively easy, and gets the job done, while preventing anonymity and consequent anonymous flaming. You can just install another Wordpress instance on the blcklst server with the right plugins. PUT a disclaimer at registration that frees GITS/Black List team and forum users from liability. Look at TriggerStreet, Zoetrope and DDP for TOS examples, but try and consult a pro or, better yet, outsource a TOS/disclaimer gig to a legal technical writer on Elance. No public aspect. Unless you want to open a general screenwriting forum, discussions are going to be about GOYOQ, and as such, should be accessible to GOYOQ registrants only. Also, I believe Quest participants would appreciate a forum of their own.
BFletcher_R at 2012-06-19 17:00:07:
This is exactly my line of thought. Although, from my experience, you don't have to have another WP in order to get bbPress. There is a method of integrating it with the currently installed WP installation. But everything else sabrescribe has stated is spot-on!
Felipe D Machado at 2012-06-19 17:54:05:
Yeah, the main issue would be the problems that could arise from Anonymity. Perhaps a Quest entrant only forum would be best. At least until The Quest is over. Unrelated, you mentioned you are currently putting promising loglines into a list and will then whittle them down to around 25. Obviously you can't provide personal reviews of each logline, but would it be possible to release the original list of promising loglines? It might serve as extra encouragement for those who didn't make the cut, but still might have ideas worth investing in. Just a thought. Thank you so much for all you have done already!
sabrescribe at 2012-06-19 19:34:42:
You're right. You don't have to, but in this case they should be separate technical entities as to not compromise each other. Even with a low probability, a forum tweak should not be allowed to affect the blog, and vice versa.
Shaula Evans at 2012-06-19 21:02:09:
> but would it be possible to release the original list of promising loglines? I appreciate the spirit of sharing at work here, but please don't do this: people submitted their loglines on an understanding of confidentiality and privacy. Changing the terms after the fact puts their work at risk and doesn't seem like your style, Scott.
Sarah Grimes at 2012-06-19 21:02:36:
I think it would also be important if each person who did submit any pages or ideas for each other to review incorporated their own disclosure/copyright notation in their submission to help alleviate the potential for someone else utilizing it.
Shaula Evans at 2012-06-19 21:04:51:
This is a great suggestion, Brad. There are recent psychology studies about how getting people to sign an agreement to be honest before filling out tax returns substantially reduces cheating. A well-crafted, common-sense Terms of Service, that fits one screen so people could really read it, could be a very powerful tool.
Shaula Evans at 2012-06-19 21:08:55:
> should really be who you feel the most comfortable with, Scott. Good advice, BFletcher. Volunteer mods from inside the community have been the key to growing and maintaining health online communities since the days of local dial-up BBSes. > I think a private pages section on the message board would be the best way to prevent any sort of litigation from arising. More great ideas: private pages areas plus public discussion areas. Perfect. > I do not think that the message boards/forum would end up being a mediocre method of trying to obtain answers from you Scott Yes! The goal of a forum isn't to try to squeeze more free stuff out of Scott, it's to provide an easy-to-find, easy-to-navigate space where we can all help each other, within the framework of the Quest as you lay it out here on the blog.
Shaula Evans at 2012-06-19 21:11:35:
Of course, we'll all also be discussion the Quest posts in the comments here on the blog which are open to the public... I don't think Scott is tight-fisted about his ideas (or he wouldn't be blogging). Although Scott: I really hope you are considering compiling some of this into a series of screenwriting books. It sounds like Do your own Quest would make a great book, and so would many of your other posts. Please consider it (you know: one day when you have some free time!)
Scott at 2012-06-19 21:23:24:
I will not share any of the loglines. There are some lessons to be drawn from them I think I can do without revealing anything in the way of specifics. But Shaula, you already know me well to ascertain that I am a man of my word. Of course, if any of the Quest scripts go through the entire process and sell, you can read the loglines in the trades!
Shaula Evans at 2012-06-19 21:46:22:
1. So my question to you is this: How do you propose we ensure these boards are writers supporting writers, not a “ask Scott to read my pages” dynamic? Easy: sit on your hands, Scott. There are lots of forums where writers help writers. I hope many people here have participated in real-world writers groups or online peer review workshops before. If you are kind enough to build this, then just open the gates and let us make our own way. We'll surprise you. 2. So my question to you is this: How should I go about determining who would be moderators on these boards? Or is there another way to handle this issue? Yes, we need lots of mods--and people from different time zones / sleep schedules, so there's 24 hour coverage. There are clearly a lot of people here who have been long-time, active members of the site, and who "get" where you're coming from and what you're doing. Whoever you pick is your ambassador and goes a long way to setting the tone for the community. As BFFletcher pointed out, pick people who you trust. A. Make a list of people you've come to know from the comments and trust. Email them. Ask them to mod. B. They need a simple set of guidelines (as do the community) for how the forums work. You can draft or ask them to draft. Doesn't have to be fancy. For example, here's the moderator notice from the Zoetrope public discussion boards: "These discussions are moderated. We dislike flame wars and do what we feel necessary to prevent them, if you deliberately start a flame war on our public discussion boards you may be banned permanently and without warning. Our site is devoted to the creative life, and we provide this forum for discussion of issues related to it. In the interest of keeping things civil, we ask that you not debate political or religious issues here, as in our experience, such unresolvable debates almost always turn into flame wars. If you feel a need to discuss these topics, the Private Offices are there for that purpose" It's a good framework (if it's actively enforced) and a good starting point. C) They need to know /how/ to do their job. Many errors and infractions will arise from cross-cultural differences, language difference, and innocent misunderstandings rather than malice. Diplomacy is better than a stick in most cases: a quiet word from a cool-headed mod. A policy of "three strikes and you're out" tends to work well--all the moreso if, like points on a driver's license, strikes expire after a determined period. D) They need a hierarchy, so there is a small number of people (super-mods) that mods can go to in case of confusion, desire for guidance, internal disputes, etc. Pick people you trust tons. You may or may not want to wait until some leaders emerge organically. This way, you don't have to be a super-nanny to your moderators: you have people to do that for you. 3. but from a purely legal standpoint, perhaps some sort of blanket waiver release that by using the GOYOQ boards indemnifies me and users from legal action. Thoughts? Most important thing is to protect YOU legally, so that you aren't in a vulnerable position. Please don't take advice from well-intended laypeople on this one. A) Contact (or get a volunteer to contact for you--delegate! delegate!) sites like DoneDealPro and ask how they handle it. That's not legal advice, but it is feedback from people in the trenches handling the very same kinds of situations. B) Talk to a real lawyer who handles Internet stuff. C) Trust your gut and stay away from the legalese. Cover yourself, but make this as human, friendly, and Scott-like as possible. 4. Finally should there be a public aspect of the proposed boards for general discussion, but then a private forum where participants can share their script ideas and pages for review so they aren’t made available to the general public? Almost: there can be one forum, with public subforums, and private subforums. Easy. On a related note: People are going to get twisted up about "people are going to steal my stuff!" Well, online writing workshops have thrived since the inception of the internet. I've been a member of Zoetrope for over a decade and I've never heard of work being stolen. Let's be realistic: the crowd around here is pretty fantastic--they aren't people I'd be afraid of. You've built an incredible community around your blog, Scott. In addition, most of our work isn't good enough to steal; people here aren't going to steal it; and if you come up with work that is so fantastic people can't resist the temptation to steal it--then you have the talent to come up with another equally good script. It's all the fear- and insecurity-based stuff that comes up when people say, "I want to pitch my script but I don't want studios stealing my idea..." We all have to get over it. Maybe some of us can get over it earlier rather than later with the forum. You will also receive suggestions that we all use our "real names" (or handles that look like real names--a distinction that's lost on many people) to cut down on problems. This, in itself, is a problem. Welcome to the Nymwars. Here's a short article that outlines how people are harmed by Real Name policies--it's bad policy, and it doesn't sound like your style at all. . . . After all that, the very short version is: trust your gut. Do this Scott-style. When you need real legal advice, get real legal advice. Trust us. Let us surprise you.
Shaula Evans at 2012-06-19 21:47:41:
Your integrity is a bright light that illuminates this joint, Scott.
montana malone at 2012-06-19 22:04:41:
Sometimes a simple quest becomes so complicated. My heart and thanks are with you, Scott. Now, go take a nap. Best, Montana
BFletcher_R at 2012-06-19 22:10:57:
You know, I never thought about having an issue that might cross over from forum to blog. Excellent point.
BFletcher_R at 2012-06-19 22:16:15:
I don't think a policy of having real names as "handles" is a good idea, but I do think that when you sign up to participant in the forum, that you are required to provide accurate information as to your identity so that way people who have less than honorable intentions could hide behind anonymity.
Scott at 2012-06-19 22:53:31:
Shaula, I have several books in the works, just trying to find time to get onto them.
Shaula Evans at 2012-06-19 23:01:03:
I'm really glad to hear it.
Scott at 2012-06-19 23:03:02:
Okay, some terrific suggestions. We'll have some time to work this out. For the first 8 weeks of "The Quest," we'll be focusing on screenplay theory and can do those discussions right here on GITS. The Prep and Pages workshop component wouldn't kick in until some time in August. By then, we should have everything figured out and online platform for the GOYOQ forums. Now back to reviewing more loglines!
Scribbler Jones at 2012-06-20 10:16:53:
Scott, for those writers who developed loglines specifically for this contest, if they're chosen as finalists, would you accept a paragraph or two re: ideas they have for the direction of the script? My concern is that the writers who came up with loglines specifically for this contest will be at a disadvantage with writers who submitted loglines for existing screenplays.
Scott at 2012-06-20 10:58:26:
Scribbler, the whole point of 24-week Quest workshop is to combine theory [8 weeks of Core] with practice [6 weeks of Prep / 10 weeks of Pages] to take (A) deepen one's understanding of screenwriting from a character-based perspective in order to (B) use that knowledge to develop and write the first draft of an original screenplay. So if a writer has a completed script, they are going to have to break it down to square one and start from the beginning anyhow, putting them pretty much on the same level as a writer with nothing more than a logline worked out. In terms of those who make the first cut, a paragraph or even a few lines of whatever they have worked out, if only that, is fine. If I can 'see' the movie in the sense that the logline and concept feel like a film, then we're in good shape. Besides if we get to the point where I call the writer to meet and chat with them, we can kick around the story a bit on the phone to flesh out some possibilities. In other words, if all you have is the logline, that's entirely fine for this "Go Into The Story: The Quest" initiative.
Felipe D Machado at 2012-06-20 20:27:54:
Sorry, there seems to have been a misunderstanding (due to my poor wording). What I meant to ask is: Would it be possible for you to release the names of the writers or maybe the titles? Obviously not everyone would want their loglines shared with the world, but I think that people who made the initial cut would be glad to know they did. Sorry again for my poor choice of words.
Scott at 2012-06-20 23:47:56:
No problem, Felipe. We're all feeling our way through this process. I think what I can do is ask all the people along the way if I can release their names and assuming they concur, I can post those on GITS. I do not want to release titles because in some cases, they clearly give away the story concept.