The Bark Bites Back at 2012-05-22 13:14:50:

I was following this the other night... one of the few I've found myself on twitter as I don't get on there much. Thanks for reposting. I know we've discussed some of this in the past, but I find the reader perspective fascinating. More specifically, how differently the writing can be perceived. I'll give you an example as two different readers from ScriptShark had two totally different reactions to one particular plot twist. The first: "(It’s also worth noting that this reader started losing investment in the story around the time that twist arose. It felt like a lot of trouble to go to in setting up and explaining something that really just seems to be there to shock the audience.)" The second: "Another reason for the script’s strength in the revelations it creates in its story is the sheer number of them, and the ways in which they are tightly wound around one another. For example, although Robby is portrayed as somewhat slow, and Aunt Cath even confesses he is her son, it never becomes easy to guess that she was raped by Michael’s father until she reveals it. This type of pacing and modulation – as well as this degree of dedication to the unraveling mystery the script displays – seems to represent a genuinely thoughtful and professional overall written style." The first reading rendered a pass. The second, a very strong consider, finishing with: "Overall, this script presents a story that feels well-crafted and executed nearly flawlessly. While there may be one or two areas worth examining should the script decide to undergo another draft, it seems as if they are so trivial that they may not even be necessary. In the end, what is already on the page feels smooth, professional, and emotionally-engaging from start to finish." I post these excerpts because it's such a fascinating thing for a writer to receive such different reactions. The second writer fully understood what I was doing - the full revelation didn't come until the right moment because everybody had a secret they were hiding whereas the first reader felt it was just thrown in for shock value (which I found pretty disheartening to read). Anyway, as I've said before it goes to show that it's all about finding that one person who believes in what you've written to help get it to the next level.

seth liebman at 2012-05-22 13:27:16:

I was lucky to catch the twit convo, and thank you all for it! And thanks to Scott for reposting. My question would be about Style -- how much does the writer's style of words, specifically the writing of "unfilmables" within the script, or the fact that it is written against the 'accepted' way of screenwriting, piss you off? I am assuming that your answers might lean towards the dependency of other factors like Concept and general execution -- But if all things were Equal - what would your feeling be? Is writing against the 'normal' way a real killer or has the 'accepted' way progress and gained a little wiggle room these days?

Chris Westfield at 2012-05-22 21:00:14:

Top 11 Things Readers Hate. i think I got this off a podcast from just effing entertain me. (paraphrased): 1. Typos, grammar, language usage. 2. Nothing happens in the story. 3. Too much action lines that interrupt dialogue. 4. Too much blocks of action. 5. On the nose dialogue. 6. Lame character work. (should be #1, next to great concept). 7. Lame sluglines: Too basic or too descriptive. 8. All over the map storyline. 9. Derivative, unoriginal scripts. (Basically a copy of another movie). 10. Sending weird stuff with script. 11. Too long, over 120 pages or to short, 90 pages.

Inger F at 2012-05-22 21:46:52:

Hi Scott thanks for posting the transcript. I am new to all this and something has escaped my research thus far. This quote from the discussion: "This is where I should probably mention that the prod cos I’ve read for have been very heavily genre-based." So what does this mean “genre-based” I thought every story had a genre, was based in a genre? Obviously it means something else :-) If someone could someone spell it out for me I would really appreciate the clarification. Cheers Inger

Nate Winslow at 2012-05-23 01:11:35:

I'll steal a phrase of Scott's here: There's no one way to write. Some people get away with a ton of unfilmables, some people get away with an incredibly stylized voice and some people get away with having no real distinctive voice in their scripts at all. I'll assume you're talking about writing spec scripts specifically, though, and in that case I think it's always good to hedge your bets. One of the primary goals of a great spec script is to provide an effortless read. If your script is telling an incredibly unique and compelling story but it's an absolute slog to get through the first 15 pages, there's a good chance someone doesn't give it the benefit of the doubt and drops it at page 14. Your goal is to make someone forget they're reading the script, and usually, that someone is an overworked, tired, underpaid script reader or assistant. You make them get to page 90 and have them do a double-take and go "Wow--wait: I read this ENTIRE script ALREADY??" And it will not matter if you used 40 unfilmables--you got them that far without them taking their eyes of the page. Generally, unfilmables jump off the page at me. That's just me, and I'm just one opinion, but used extremely sparingly and extremely intelligently--like any "no-no" in a script--they can be effective. I've never had anyone convince me they're necessary to a script, though. You tell a great story that has me hooked from page 1 to page 110, you've done the most important thing right. Usually, that means with great writing and smooth, white-space-y pages and not a ton of unfilmables, but there are always exceptions :).

Amanda Pendolino at 2012-05-23 02:29:10:

Agreed - love Nate's answer. Style varies. Some people write in a really sparse, practical way, while others pack a lot of personality into their prose. Ideally, your prose (in addition to your dialogue, characters, etc.) will show off your voice and point of view - but story is key. If I'm totally bored by your story, I might start to get annoyed by your comma splices and editorial comments - but if you're telling a great story, your prose won't make a huge difference. Also, I think the best advice here is to just READ READ READ. You'll get a sense of how many "unfilmables" and things like that are average among professional screenplays.

Scott at 2012-05-23 03:19:48:

Some personal history. When I first broke into Hollywood as a screenwriter, I quickly picked up on how important script readers were. So I befriended a couple of them, actually took them out to lunch to pick their brains. Cut to 2012. Here you have three people who read, cover and analyze scripts as part of what they do in Hollywood, offering their insight and even advice... And you don't have to buy them lunch. The point Nate makes -- "Your goal is to make someone forget they’re reading the script" -- is spot on. You don't want them to read a script. You want them to read a story. You want them so engaged by your characters and your fictional universe that they forget about sluglines and transitions and dialogue, where they are swept up into the spirit and flow of your story. Where, as Nate suggests, they look up and realize - shockingly - they've read 90 pages and had no idea that happened. If you can create a story like that, you could write the words in purple crayon on the back of Ritz crackers, and they wouldn't notice. Well, that's not really true. But symbolically it is true. Format, style, voice, all important. But nothing is more important than the story concept, the characters, and the story itself. Make them care! Pull them in! Entertain their ass! If you do that, my guess is Bitter, Amanda and Nate would say nothing else matters all that much.

Nate Winslow at 2012-05-23 03:26:59:

I know what you're saying, but I don't know if it's second-guessing, exactly. I don't have to second guess my bosses--if I'm guessing about something, what's to stop me from asking, right? I'm reading FOR them: for their taste, for whatever hole they're looking to fill in their development slate, for a fantastic writer, for whatever kind of movie their company makes...Many things that, hopefully, I'm not guessing TOO much about. Obviously, there's no way to know exactly how someone else would react to a certain script, but part of the job description is being able to do it really well. RE: Pitching--I've never pitched a room before, but I'd imagine it's just like getting coverage back. What you're seeing is one person's opinion. And in coverage's case, one person who's providing you a filtered opinion of their boss, not even their own, un-biased opinion. People pass on project pitches all the time--The Matrix got passed on probably 50 times. The King's Speech? Scott did a great post about the journey that thing took to the screen, but safe to say Seidler had more than a few passes. Any kind of pass in this town represents one person's opinion. One person's opinion should never be enough to make you change anything or doubt anything or hate anything. Hopefully, you take away a few notes from that pass (and if you're getting 200 passes that all say the same exact thing, safe to say they're probably on to something...), but that's a highly underrated and under-discussed skill for a writer: how to know what to do with a pass once you get it.

Bitter Script Reader at 2012-05-23 03:29:43:

That's essentially correct. I've been trying to think of an easy example of a "rule-breaking" script that suckered me in, and I'm at a loss to recall one that actually got produced. But I do remember this slush pile script from ages ago. Conceptually, it should have been a pass from the pitch. It had multiple stories that didn't intersect for two acts, a lot of characters to keep track of, and for a hook that could have made for a compelling thriller, the writer instead went for more of a drama. And yet... There was just something about this. The first page drew me in with the writer's smooth, compelling style - and then a shocking plot twist in the first ten pages or so pulled me in. 40 minutes later, I finished the script. A script that length usually should have taken a full hour. If a writer can put me under that kind of spell, he must be doing something right. No, not just right, EXCEPTIONAL. Did I give it a CONSIDER, despite all the "obvious" strikes I listed above? What do you think?

Bitter Script Reader at 2012-05-23 03:48:36:

When I worked for an agency, I was allowed to select my scripts from a pile. I always grabbed samples that were shorter, had less-dense description and that didn't start with "EXT. ROMANIA - 1612" At one of the prod cos I read for now, the Director of Development is aware of my predilection for thrillers, action films and comedies and whenever possible they try to accommodate. On rare instances when there's an extreme mismatch, I'll contact the exec and inquire (beg) about the possibility of this being reassigned to a writer more into that particular genre. So long as I don't take advantage, they're usually accommodating. There are also plenty of instances where we've been supplied with the cover letter, which contains a logline or pitch.

Mark Georgeff at 2012-05-24 01:49:06:

Well...(LOL) I don't know where to begin on all this!!! And I agree with a lot of these readers ops, that i've read recently but... 1) This comes down to opinions, and God knows the history in Hollywood is about sooo many people saying, NO...and success still happens. 2) I put my own time and money into making a pitch trailer for one of my scripts, and guess what? You're seeing a movie version of the same script. Sooo all the work and opinions of these readers pretty much go out the window...because I've fused (If I'm doing my work -- THE WORK -- correctly) concept with structure. I'm telling a visual drive narrative -- a story -- called a movie. 3) I'm a writer, not just a screenwriter -- so story structure HAS to come before concept any day of the week. It holds everything together...and the script is JUST the foundation for the next transformation. 4) When you have so many similar spec scripts -- multiple SNOW WHITES...and WHITE HOUSE TAKEOVERS...sold in the same or following years; that''s -- NOT -- about concept. That's structure. Plain and simple. Oh, by the way AMANDA, I'll be using your coverage services soon on one of my projects. So...you can hate me then LOL!!!! and I'll pay for it either way!!!