I hope and pray that super-hero features exhaust themselves and we get some long-form high-budget serial superhero tv shows. Heroes Season 1 showed it could be done. The WB genre shows are also great models.

I suspect that the reason we haven't seen it with top-tier name-brand DC and Marvel heroes (the passed-on Wonder Woman pilot notwithstanding) is that the ROI is just piles higher in features. I'd love to be wrong.

Because story-wise, TV can yield a much more gratifying adaptation of comic books' appeal. Marvel's great 1960's innovation was continuity and interconnectedness. I haven't really loved any comic book movies -- Robert Downey Jr was appealing as Iron Man, and Doc Ock's arms are among my favorite nasties ever put to screen, but there's something about the feature formula that ultimately leaves me cold.

Of course, I speak for few.

That said, if DC needs an off-beat take on the Wonder Twins, I have a treatment ready to go.

This is an interesting topic. I'm working on what could be called a superhero story, but have been banging my head trying to find a superhero movie as a model and I can't find one. The original Spider-man comes closest, but is still far off.

An under 25 male commented about this article on another site. He said his demo would rather buy a video game than pay for a costly trip to the movies. As a gamer, I get that. He said his demo is attracted by "violence and sarcasm." I will be sure to have that in my story because I think it's true.

"Violence and sarcasm." Yep, I remember digging that too when I was a punk kid! ;) (of course my game selection was limited to whatever the Sega Genesis had to offer... exit creaky old man, stage left...)

I'm trying reeeeeel hard to contain my glee at all this... and yes, I know, when Hollywood loses, we all lose but...

YA-HOO! Die tepid superhero movies, DIE!!!

If one takes a step back and scans the burning superhero franchise landscape, can one honestly claim there are any real winners besides the original Iron Man and perhaps Spider Man 2? (when I say winners, I'm referring to "solid storytelling" here.)

Fantastic 4 and it's heinous sequel? Agnonizing.

Thor? Mildly insufferable.

Ben Affleck in his red DAREDEVIL jammies? Yikes.

I mean, Ang Lee's HULK is, for me, a guilty pleasure because it's so f'ed up in terms of character and execution, but it's still a pretty rotten venture overall. The Ed Norton retread was okay but just barely.

So here we are. At a crossroads?

C'mon, Hollywood, leave the funny books where they belong, on the twirling wire comic rack at your local Osco Drug Store, and get back to the business at hand - - regurgitating and ripping off board games, toys, and tired old TV Shows that play at midnight on TV Land!

(oy vey....)

Greg Lantern. Priceless!

Whoops. Forgot "The Dark Knight" on that list of "superhero movies that actually worked" list o' mine. A glaring omission, to be sure!

"too many tights" is an example of some small thinking.

I dont think comic book-based superhero movies are the problem; the problem is the desire to stick to the established story lines. Maybe DC and Marvel are afraid fresh takes on the characters and themes would somehow damage the intellectual property, but I think they are dead wrong. We need to allow some great writers to take on a hero like Green Lantern and just run wild with it. The potential for that character is through the roof and the current movie's success was only limited by the level of script control levied by the studio.

Angela Bassett's character in Green Lantern, Amanda Waller, is a tortured woman whose family is murdered. She works her way up to a top level govt job as the head of the Suicide Squad - a group of supervillians who are forced to commit murder and acts of terrorism in return for reduced sentences....talk about drama! They could have crafted a unique story about that and the Hal Jordan journey that would have been amazing.

Just imagine what an independent superman movie could be like. You wouldnt necessarily even have to have a lot of "tights" time on the screen because the human side of the character and his emotional journey could be so intriguing if faced with the right conflict

If anyone wants to see a superhero story with no special effects or even action, I enjoyed and recommend The Specials. And again, I am mostly alone in that.

"Greg Lantern," heh.

So if half of theaters offer 3D and only third of audience sees 3D, is that enough to convince studios that 3D doesn't pull people into theaters?

Most accurate measure of superhero box office would include secondary markets (esp dvd sales). I am curious if sales are as strong as I suspect they are (esp with some superhero movies where the director's cut, like with Daredevil, are the only way to go).

I hope with Green Lantern there's a director's cut (and I'm happy to wait to find out). Saw the animated version (same story), wonder if breaking up the story and digging more into character would have created more story satisfaction and appeal (esp for broad audience).

Another example of superhero movie done well, Rocketeer (also had story particularly well suited for movie).

@Josh K-sky, re "serial superhero tv shows," totally, my thought also re where superheroes might thrive.

@Jeffrey, there are no more twirling comic racks in drugstores, would be nice if there were. Industry not in great shape, may a digital revolution come to pass, inject new life.

Atlanta - I like The Rocketeer too.

It has a great score by James Horner - his best, in my opinion. It's music that makes you feel you can do anything.

I can sing this entire theme note for note, it is so memorable. Same thing with Danny Elfman's score for Batman, John Williams' Superman theme, most of John Williams' themes, in fact.

Can you remember the music for the Spiderman films? Hellboy? Fantastic Four? X-Men? Watchmen?

I'm not saying these scores were bad - some were excellent - I think The Dark Knight had really interesting and innovative music, for instance.

But I'm talking about a classic, unabashed, rousing theme that makes you really root for the hero. I think that's missing in the superhero movies of late. If you're wearing tights you should have a memorable theme to go with them.

Indiana Jones is my superhero mostly because of this.

All this talk of Rocket Man made me go to Box Office Mojo to find out the movie's B.O. performance. Not good: $15M. No prod budget mentioned but it had to be $40M minimum, perhaps significantly more.

Why did the movie tank so badly? Bad marketing? No stars? Competition?

The Rocketeer did a little better with $46M. Still no home run, though.

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=rocketeer.htm

@Teddy: So that was a major brain fart. I knew when i looked up Rocket Man something was wrong because the movie I was thinking of was produced by Chuck and Larry Gordon who produced K-9 (Chuck also produced Trojan War). So The Rocketeer, that's what you're talking about. $46M in 1991 dollars is not bad. Maybe there is life for that as a reboot.

I'd go see a new Rocketeer, sure. But only if Jennifer Connelly is in it. :)

Joe's ears must be burning because he just said a day or two ago that he'd want to do a reboot/sequel to The Rocketeer now that people are thinking that Captain America might be huge.

Though I can't remember music, I loved Hellboy, and the sequel, and all forms of the property, and Mike Mignola, Hellboy artist and writer, and trailblazer in independent comic publishing (via Dark Horse Comics).

Issue to get if you want to try print version, here or here.

Ron Perlman, such great casting, that worked out well.

Found dvd numbers for the sequel here:
Hellboy: 60prod/100box (60domes/40)
Hellboy 2: 82prod/160box (76domes/84) plus 44mil in dvds, so 82/204 total

What Josh K-sky said, I agree with 1000 times over.

I'm glad to see The Rocketeer get some well-deserved props from you fine folks. It really is a delightful film that never got a fair shake, for pretty much all the reasons Scott inquired about... lack of star, cruddy marketing, etc.

I personally LOVE it when Hollywood tries to invoke that era of filmmaking... The Rocketeer plays nicely with Alec Baldwin's take on The Shadow, Billy Zane in The Phantom, Warren Beatty's Dick Tracy, the high camp of 1980's Flash Gordon, and, of course, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. All these films bombed in varying degrees (I think Dick Tracy did okay...) but I have a soft spot in my heart for all of 'em.

I agree with the assessment of superhero movies being about discovering a power, dealing with your own personal demons (and a bad guy) and saving the world.

Rinse. Repeat.

I think the reason films like Batman and X-Men do better is because they aren't about those things. That's what makes them so special.

And yes, maybe Green Lantern has story lines that aren't about those things either, but the studios don't let it happen.

Here's the real big problem with superhero movies, in my opinion: They start too early.

It's the same as having your character hit the alarm clock and wake up from his bed. These B-level heroes all want to tell us how they got their powers when that's not even the point of the story.

Start where it matters. I don't care that Green Lantern found/was given a ring. I already know he has one. He's the freaking Green Lantern! Get on with the story.

I think you put your finger on it, particularly at the end of this post. Matt Zoller Seitz over at Salon argued the same thing from a slightly different perspective. Basically the majority of Superhero movies are tonally the same with little variation. I mean even the Western Genre has remarkable range in terms of stories and style. There is no reason Supeheroes can not do the same.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/film_salon/2010/05/06/superhero_movies_bankrupt_genre

@Alandre: Thanks for that link. I'll be sure to read that Salon article.

Carlos - Agreed, I am so tired of 'origin stories.' What crime drama, for example, starts with the young hero deciding to be cop? Get on with the actual story!
I'd had good expectations for the upcoming Superman film, as Nolan, fresh off Darknight, would take that film's tactics: no 'origin' for Batman or the Joker. Just conflict. But casting news of big stars in the 'parent' rolls tells me we are getting yet another origin story -- and this time, it's a story most people already know all too well.
What is so hard about coming up with a big exciting story that *features* Superman -- or any hero, for that matter -- as opposed to another everything-at-once movie *about* him?

BLADE was successful enough to launch a movie trilogy.

And probably is the reason David Goyer was hired to write the new Batman stuff.

And put Guillermo Del Toro in the limelight.

HELLBOY was hugely successful and isn't thought of as a "top tier" superhero.

The problem with superhero movies is most execs are idiots following a fad. That's what I want to say-- but there's actually a bigger problem.

SUPERMAN is the superhero archetype. If you don't have some significant twist on the story that the audience can relate to, it's really just a poor man's Superman. Which is exactly what GREEN LANTERN is. And the FLASH for that matter -- Hi, David Goyer again!

SPIDERMAN is a kid. He gets superpowers and then has to turn in his homework. This is an interesting twist.

IRON MAN should have been a poor man's BATMAN. However, someone found a really good connection with the power source being Iron Man's heart. He gets shot, finds his heart, tries to rid the world of weapons that he once created -- ironically, with a weapon he created.

The truth is Iron Man really isn't a superhero movie. Which is why it's great.

I think CAPTAIN AMERICA has the potential to put up some numbers this summer. Probably not astronomical, but more than cynical analysts expect.

Small scrawny guy with a huge heart gets to become Mr. All-American. It's very relatable. Has some similar elements to Spiderman. But is definitely its own thing.

I also think it may pull in some baby boomer audience because of the WWII time period and because it doesn't necessarily look like a superhero movie.

BTW -- I too have a WONDER TWINS pitch lol. Great minds.